I used to live closer! Wish we could hang out sometime too.

What’s one of the first things anyone defending the death penalty says? “Well, how would you feel if someone raped and killed your mother or sister?” People feel how they feel about that example, and I can’t imagine any amount of argument that’s going to change it. But how we *feel* isn’t really the question. It’s what we can reasonable expect the state to do. And it’s not very hard, I think, to separate those things for people. And once those are separated, it’s not a very long walk to agreeing that the state will never get it 100% right.

~

I would encourage you to take as much bandwidth as you’d like, Peej. Unless it involves Berlin videos.

And speaking of road trips, I may be up your way next week to cover the Philly week races. Not yet sure on that, though.

***
Interesting point about how taking this to a simple, core moral question could then cause repercussions for the stand/argument for or against abortion. My own answer is that since I do not consider abortion as taking a life, but purely as a surgical procedure, it pretty much stops any overrun of one argument into the other.

(I don’t *really* think of abortion as merely a surgical procedure and know first hand of the emotional internal debates that definitely put it on a different level than, say, getting your tonsils removed or appendix taken out. But the emotional side of it is something inherently personal and psychological and no matter how I feel, it doesn’t change my definition of living being when talking/aruging about the right to abortion)
***
It’s hard writing about these things in a limited space (and I am sure MB is wishing I’d stop or go hog my own bandwidth or something). I think we all need to take a road trip and meet somewhere and discuss this in person. (Well, and talk about lighter matters as well.) Why don’t any of you live close by?!

Honestly, I’m not sure I’d be completely morally opposed if we could be 100% certain of our justice system. Which, let me tell you, shocks me as I write this. I don’t know. The things that have always compelled me have been more of a sense that you can’t do irrevocable things if you don’t know that you are sure, and my own belief that there is nothing after death, so killing someone means they aren’t around to regret/suffer for their crime. Which is pretty revenge-y of me, no?

***
Your argument is a valid one, Joy. I think, though, that arguments like that divert and deflect attention [completely unintentionally] from what I think the focus of the death penalty debate should come down to: whether it is morally right to premeditatively take a life? I throw the word premidtatively in there not to give other situations where a life is taken a wide berth or a pass–those deserve their own debate–but to simplify the debate to its very basic moral core: is it right for the death penalty to be performed and take a life? No additional what if circumstances, no comparisons to other, preferred methods of punishment, just a simple yes or no question. Which, like most just yes and no questions is the hardest to answer if your answer depends on other things. But, to answer MB’s question in an earlier comment, I am wondering if the KISS principle may be the best way to reach out to people on this issue. Or maybe I am kiding myself and just being stupidly maive myself, thinking that way.

I also think it is a much worse punishment to be imprisoned for life.

~

I wonder what it is about that, Peej. Perhaps a greater appreciation for the fluidity of things? If there’s another way to reach folks on this issue, I’d like to figure it out.

While I believe there can be real disagreement about the theoretical morality of state sanctioned killing, I don’t think any person who takes the time to understand the practical application of the death penalty in the US (or anywhere, really) could make an honest and moral case for it.

***
The sad part is the only people whose conscience this is really going to rest on is the people who’d wanted to prevent it. Everyone else will go on to get their good night’s sleep.