While debating a proposed resolution apologizing for Virginia’s role in slavery, we encounter another of the Virginia GOP’s best and brightest:
“I personally think that our black citizens should get over it,†[Del. Frank] Hargrove said of slavery, which existed in Virginia from 1619 until the Civil War. “By golly, we’re living in 2007.â€
But wait, it gets better!
“Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?†Hargrove wondered. “Nobody living today had anything to do with it.”
Must be seeking the GOP nomination for the Senate, or something . . .
Updated to add: Really, to hear so many objections from a conservative population that otherwise fetishizes empty gestures (One nation under God, In God We Trust) should be surprising. But, of course, it isn’t. Because if there’s anything more predictable about many of today’s “conservatives†than pointless public proclamations of faith, it’s their steadfast devotion to racism.
Bob
Ya know what, MB? Slavery was a bad thing, so was Nazi Germany, stealing this land from the Indians, the Crusades, the Crucifixion and have the Jews ever really gotten an apology from the Egyptians? Hey, GET OVER IT. Hargrove is right -on! Lets worry about getting our troops back from Iraq and commend Slavery to the history books where it belongs.
corinne price
This Hanover County citizen is mortified by Mr. Hargrove’s insensitive comments. I hope when he fails to be re-elected he will be able to “get over it”.
The rest of the world is judging Hanover County by this man’s representation. Now we all seem like a bunch of hillbillys, too.
SHAME ON YOU MR. HARGROVE!!
MB
And really, Bob, when you put it like that, it doesn’t at all call into question the reasons for your reluctance to support something as easy as an apology. No, not at all . . .
~
Corinne, I look forward to hearing about EX-Delegate Hargrove next cycle . . .
JE
Way to go…I am so tired of people belly aching about what happened over a century and half ago….he is right…..this day and age of political correctness and everyone having their collective feelings hurt….good greif ..everyone needs to get over it. Those that always point to the past for reasons that they don’t have a future..c’mon don’t blame your inability to get it together on everyone else….it is getting very old! Tell it like it is! Get on with life in the best country on the planet with the most opportunity!!
Austin, Texas
MB
Telling it like it is? Sure, I’ll go along with that. Perhaps I’ll start with pointing out that it’s a pretty safe bet that most folks who feel the need to voice an opposition are doing so more out of latent racism than any genuine interest in a better society.
And don’t hand me this “political correctness” bullshit. What PC really is is a phrase that assholes throw out when they want to be excused for being assholes.
And now I’ll add what I’ve written elsewhere:
Really, to hear so many objections from a conservative population that otherwise fetishizes empty gestures (One nation under God, In God We Trust) should be surprising. But, of course, it isn’t. Because if there’s anything more predictable about many of today’s “conservatives†than pointless public proclamations of faith, it’s their steadfast devotion to racism.
~
Don’t bring stupid to this site. I’ve already got to face enough of it in the world.
corinne price
JE, just to be clear, Mr. Hargrove was not opposing a proposed Bill to “appoint blame for people’s inability to get it together”. He was opposing an opportunity for Virginia, THE GREATEST STATE IN THE NATION, to express it’s apology for it’s part in the tragedy of slavery that plagued this great nation for so long.
He is not opposing monetary reparations to current Virginians. HE IS OPPOSING THAT VIRGINIA APOLOGIZE. An apology costs no one anything and it would go along way towards us all closing a very ugly chapter in our GREAT STATE’S history.
Phil Lee
This is a sad day, again, in our history. Mr. Hargrove was telling the truth and that is something no one wants to hear anymore. People are too sensitive and right down, stupid over this issue. What bothers me is the fact the blacks are more concerned with the issue of slavery, which no longer exist in our country, from the past than the issues of slavery in their country root, Africa. How many of our black citizens have aided their fellow Africans in their fight for freedom and equality? I am tired of being intimidated by the few blacks because I am an equal and I will not give up my freedom. There will be no apology from me. I did not do anything wrong.
corinne price
Yo, Phil-
You weren’t asked to apologize. The State of Virginia WAS.
Get over yourself.
MB
Except, Phil, you did do something wrong. You brought the stupid. Now you do owe the rest of us an apology.
Phil Lee
I rest my case with the help of Corinne and MB. Truth does hurt and this issue is stupid.
David
Why do people continue to bother bringing up race issues in modern society? Most people couldn’t care less and are just trying to allow racism to finally die. But still…people like the ones giving this guy crap won’t let it! Do you realize that such an issue could have come and gone a long time ago had people just let it quietly pass away? But no, it has to be brought up again and again by black activists/comedians/musicians/whathaveyou that, sorrily to say, it’s probably going to be a long time before that happens. So to everyone complaining about what this guy says (and I’m not talking about the comment regarding the Jews; I don’t see how that was meant to be offensive in any way), wouldn’t you say it’s about time you checked the mirror? Think about it.
MB
Why, David? Well, it’s because race still matters. You don’t think so? Look how vociferously people are coming down on the idea of a simple apology. That, right there, illustrates why this still matters.
(And if you don’t see how offensive the comment was about Jews killing Jesus, well, it must be a nice little hole you’ve lived your life in.)
Mary B
First of all, I think this is another example of the media, which we all know is very liberal – taking a small part of Delegate Hargrove’s interveiw and using it to cause an uproar.
Delegate Hargrove is a fair minded and dedicated servant to the Great Commonwealth of Virginia, and he would never do or say anything to hurt another living soul.
The point he was trying to make is that in order for healing to begin, we ALL must “get over it”.
What is an empy apology from “the state” going to accomplish?
The people currently living in Virginia had nothing to do with slavery.
I think his comment about the Jews killing Christ was also miss quoted – in fact he was talking about all of the past mistakes made over the course of history. If you watch his speach, the media only has the sound on for that part.
I fully support Delegate Frank Hargrove – for saying what a lot of people in Virgina feel – stop wasting tax payer money, bringing this issue up every year and focus engery on more important issues.
MB
We don’t “all know” any such thing, Mary. And really, simply making such a claim makes me think that either you’re dishonest, or rather uninformed.
As to Frank Hargrove being fair-minded, I think his comments and general opposition to the proposed resolution show quite the opposite.
Finally, the full text of his remarks in the debate are out there for everyone to see. Head on out and read them – it certainly doesn’t put him in any better light.
Mary B
Well now – personally attacking my honesty and intelligence. Very nice. I was under the impression that Freedom of Speech allows me to voice my opinion on any matter without this kind of behavior being the results.
corinne price
Frank Hargrove is a politician. The end. He will do or say whatever he thinks will get him elected next go round. He, like 99.9% of all of them, democrat or republican, would sell his mother to satan if it got him a vote.
Sadly, he IS speaking for most of his constituents. His stance on this issue will only gain him support.
Sorry, MB, hate to disappoint, but I doubt seriously this will effect his standing one bit the next time his name is on a ballot. If anything, it will only increase his popularity. A sad commentary on the county he represents. One that has much to be proud of historically.
Mary, yes. Freedom of Speech does allow you to voice your opinion. (As of today, but those rights are rapidly dwindling under our current adminstration). But, we can respectfully disagree with you under that same Freedom of Speech. As for taxpayer money being wasted, well,,,,,,Frank’s party has wasted much more money on much less important issues IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. Feel free to respectfully disagree with me…….while you can.;>
MB
No Mary, I didn’t say exactly that. But now I do have good reason to attack your reading comprehension.
In any event, who’s denying you your “Freedom of Speech”? You’re quite free to say anything you want, no matter how silly or offensive it may be. Or are you upset that others are just as free as you are to express an opinion?
Marty
Great Job Hargrove!!!! I am so sick of hearing this BS! I sure as hell don’t see Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton making ANY apologies to the INNOCENT Duke Lacrosse players after they “Hung them from a tree” in the media!!!!!!!! Ohhh, guess I can’t say a “tree”, might hurt someone’s feelings.
Phil Lee
You are right on that Marty. We got to be very careful what we say. I had a thought…I think today’s blacks owe us some gratitude for where they are today. I mean, IF they were sent back by Abe Lincoln or just never came over, just imagine what they would be going through at this moment in time in their homeland of Africa. It is so ironic that we can’t see the good in anything that happened, but only the bad; AND that my friends is the whole problem.
MB
Note to regular readers: if anyone is wondering where the brilliant folks like Phil Lee are coming from, this page is (at present), the number one result for any Google search on “Frank Hargrove”
And Phil? I kindly invite you to fuck off. Stupid somewhat tolerated around here, but I do have my limits.
Mary B
MB,
Such nice words, can’t you make your point without being offensive? I am all for an open debate, but I can see I am not going to be able to have an intellient one here. I am going back to my simple life in rural Hanover, where we respect each other and know what it means to be a lady or a gentleman.
MB
Putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change it from being a pig, Mary. You started off being offensive, and your primary point seems to be that you’re offended that I’m offended.
The words and sentiments expressed by Frank Hargrove are far more offensive than anything I’ve said here. If telling folks to “get over it” on something as horrible and important as the impact of slavery is how you show “respect for each other” in Hanover, well, I can only hope more of Hanover’s kids manage to leave and get a decent education. Because you sure aren’t providing it there.
corinne price
MB,
Don’t even bother. Mary’s simple life in Hanover is devoid of any tolerance for anyone who IS different or thinks differently. Believe me I know. I’ve been a resident since the late 70’s. Grew up in the schools here and shake my head in amazement on a regular basis at the narrow minded ways of many of the citizens here. Were it not for the prescence of my family I would leave and never return.
Phil Lee
MB! I demand an apology from you for using profanity.
See my point!
MB
That’ll come right after you quit being an ignorant fuck, Phil.
Seriously, no one believes that any of you are at all sincere in your anything-but-the-racist-truth explanations for opposing an apology. Why don’t you just be honest about that? (I’ll grant that your next to last post was clearly moving in that direction.)
David
MB, what exactly is your problem? You have every right to disagree with the opinions of others but it seems to me as though you WANT to entice people. If you’re going to try to provoke others with snide remarks then is it really a surprise that they’ll treat you the same way?
“(And if you don’t see how offensive the comment was about Jews killing Jesus, well, it must be a nice little hole you’ve lived your life in.)”
Well, if we’re going to make the Jews apologize for killing INRI, why don’t we make Germany apologize for the Holocaust? Oh wait, they’re STILL apologizing for it! Maybe every Christian should be entitled to reparations too then?
Passing a law to make a state “apologize” for slavery is useless. It won’t change the fact that Africans were enslaved, and it’s not going to ease anyone’s conscience. Not only that, who WOULD he apologize to? Certainly none of the slaves themselves, or any family that ever met a family of slaves. No one living had any blacks enslaved.
Plus why put the “blame” on the entire body of white American people, and why should this concern the current government of the United States of America? Not only did this occur a long, long time ago, but white Americans were not the only ones to participate in this. The obtainment of West African slaves was successful due to slavery being a rather common practice in West African history. It’s something that went on way before the trade between African slaveowners and Europeans. So should we do a geneological search for black African families who’s ancestors participated in the slave trade as well and demand they apologize? The whole affair is so terribly complex that it’s not so simple as “appologize to us or you’re racist.”
Plus, this argument just gives excuses/privileges for those within certain ethnic groups to manipulate a situation to their own benefit. And can we really speak of big interest/respect towards the Iriquois culture in North America? As a friend of mine would say, “No, because most idiots within the mainstream still consider them to be ‘illiterate gasoline sniffers.'”
If the “civilized” world hopes to progress, holding grudges and forcing people to pay for crimes they did not commit is NOT the way to do it.
David
Furthermore, there were also white slaves and black slave owners. Kind of muddies the waters when it comes to who “owes” who. People have been enslaving each other since the beginning of time and every race has been enslaved by another group at some point.
David
“An apology costs no one anything and it would go along way towards us all closing a very ugly chapter in our GREAT STATE’S history.”
Who said the chapter hasn’t been closed? Is slavery in the United States legal today? Are there still slaveowners where you live? Or are you simply unaware that 140 years have gone by while you’ve seemingly been trapped in a time capsule?
MB
No, David, it really isn’t all that complicated.
First, who said that white people were apologizing to black people? The resolution calls for the Commonwealth of Virginia to apologize for its role in slavery. Is it that you think the Commonwealth only represents white people? Hmm.
Expressing regret on behalf of a nation is hardly an awful thing to ask of. Look at the example you give – Germany. Germany, as a nation, did an awful thing. And Germany, as a nation, has actually done a pretty decent job of atoning for that (I know, I lived there for years.) What’s your problem with that?
As for “forcing” people to pay for crimes they didn’t commit, who’s talking about that?
David
“First, who said that white people were apologizing to black people?”
That’s ultimately what it’s going to narrow down to, whether you believe it or not.
“And Germany, as a nation, has actually done a pretty decent job of atoning for that”
And at what cost? Go check out some figures on how much they pay for “holocaust” reparations, both to Israel, various Jewish organisations, and individual Jews (some of whom claim to be actual survivors, others are descendents, and some are ones who simply managed to escape Germany and were not persecuted at all).
“As for “forcing†people to pay for crimes they didn’t commit, who’s talking about that?”
You have been…this whole discussion. You might not see it, and I doubt you will, but your argument’s pretty much been boiling down to that from the get-go. Do you really think that this issue is just going to stop with Virginia?
Bob
Wow, MB, you are way over the top in the language department. I had assumed this was a ligitamate website. Instead I see what you have is some type of blogging site for teenagers? When you must use that kind of language, you are admitting you lost the argument.
David, Mary, Phil….you rock! I’m going back to the grown-up sites.
MB
David, you’re a fucking idiot. You assume what isn’t there, and as to Germany’s expenditures, well, again, you’re a fucking idiot.
Bob, forgive me if I don’t take you seriously. If you can’t appreciate the substance of an argument because of its form, well, your appreciation really isn’t of much importance.
Phil Lee
I don’t think anyone likes to be forced to so anything; so why demand or force this apology. On the same token, you that believe in this apology, is enslaving those to apologize. So look who ‘s calling the kettle black; you are no better. I’m out of here. This MB has no heart, only a cold stone of hatred. May one day you will see the light.
mr.johnson
SHAME ON YOU.JUST APOLOGIZE.DO THE RIGH THING
Venise Leitzsey
Unfornately this is the sentiment of quite a large number of the fornuate ones who don’t have to encounter the lingering devastation effects of slavery. We will get over it when people like the Hargrove’s af America realize how slavery contrubuted to this country’s wealth for them and not us.
Garrick
As an African-American male I am always amazed at the level of ignorance that is demonstrated in instances like this one.
Do I think the state of Virginia should have to apologize in its role in slave trade? No unless this apology is followed by some type of legislation and drastic changes in policy designed to stop the subtle institutional racism that still occurs. However, that is not going to happen so words are hollow.
Now for some of the comments that I have read. African-American people need to get over it because racism no longer exists? Ha that is too funny. People can be so nearsighted that it is ridiculous. The effects of slavery still has a unequivocal effect in today’s society. One simply has to examine the balance of economic power in the current Eurocentric system that we live in. There are too many examples that I can point out so I will simply bullet them for those of you who care.
-Institutionalized Racism
-Misrepresentation of historical contributions of Africans/civilizations througout global history. Just look at the standard scholastic curriculum here in the states. Everything typically begins with the Greeks who scholars admitedly studied in Egypt and gained most of their knowledge from Nile Valley contributions. (All this information is readily available, just visit your local library).
-Negative portrayal of African-American people in the media is still prevailent today. Just a modern day Minstrel Show.
Someone mentioned slavery and its roots to West Africa. That is false. Mass slave trade essentially began in Greece as the Mycenaean Greeks enslaved each other. Eventually this paved the way Roman slavery across the Medditaranean into North Africa and finally the transatlantic slave trade by Europeans that is primarily responsible for dispersing indegineous African people throughout the West. I always find it interesting that in the U.S. there is this overwhelming sympathy for holocaust victims but, when trans-atlantic slavery of black people is mentioned there is a notion that we should get over it. Reeks of hypocrisy to me. Maybe people have an easier time feeling sypathy for others transgressions.
This is what happens when intolerance is combined with institutional intentional Eurocentric education.
Barbara Griswold
I pray everyday that these ignorant folks in VA and elsewhere will go to their great beyond quickly, saving us the hassle of even discussing this issue.
Hargove and the other backward white folks of the South need to GET OVER IT. They lost the Civil War and their hated over this failure continues to poison their minds and their politics.
GET OVER IT – YOU LOST THE CIVIL WAR.
GET OVER IT – SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILING TO WIN THE WAR.
I totally support reparations. If the Japanese can receive reparations for WWII imprisonment in the USA, then African Americans can receive reparations for their contribution to the wealth of our nation.
This country was built on the backs of slaves.
It’s time for this country to pay the wages that are overdue, with interest.
JM
I say thank you to Hargrove for having the guts to say it! I could not be more happy that someone finally said it instead of all this bull about the past. We should learn from the past, not live in it.
Msella
Barbara Griswold said,
on January 20th, 2007 at 11:42 am
I pray everyday that these ignorant folks in VA and elsewhere will go to their great beyond quickly,
Christians and other religions do not pray for evil. Are you a Christian? I doubt any of you here that still live in the past for Christ died for all our sins. His teachings were clear of forgiving and letting go. Our M.L.King, if alive today, would condemn each one of you. Why do we even have a day in his memory if you do not practice what he preached. I pray that the Lord will cleanse your heart and hopefully forgive you. Now end this form of hatred.
hav0c
My knee-jerk reaction to all this is to sadly shake my head in utter disbelief. How can the majority of society be such willing dupes? Let me spell it out in clearly understandable language…
Slavery in America (for blacks, at any rate) DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE! So, “Yes”; GET OVER IT!
If I were black, I would be much more concerned over the fact that I was being used as a pawn in a mass propaganda campaign to shift focus off the REAL problems that this nation is currently suffering from.
I, for one, an of the firm conviction that being proud of who you are should NOT be an exclusive right of ‘minority’ demographics. I’m white. So why can’t I express pride in my heritage without being branded a ‘racist’??
It’s all BS, fueled by the media . . . and we ALL know who controls the media.
Do the math, people. We are ALL being used, so suck it up and don’t allow yourselves to be distracted from the larger issues.
-h
Mike
I am in full agreement with Mr. Hargrove’s comments about getting over this slavery issue. It’s time to forget the past (slavery reparations, etc.) and get on with the future. After all, it’s been almost 143 years since the Civil War!
I believe that enough has been done to rectify that problem. There have been plenty of efforts to help our African American citizens to assimilate into the American culture. Every TV commercial/program has African Americans in them. The Music industry and Motion Picture industry have a huge population of African Americans – not to mention the Sports Industries. The State and Federal Governments employ African Americans in much larger proportions than is their population proportion. Maybe it’s finally time for “tough love†approach to this issue.
MB
Or maybe, Mike, it’s time for you to realize you live in an imaginary world. Life’s generally easier when you’ve got a better grip on reality.
Garrick
Mike you are obviously living in a utopia and are impervious to the inner working of the world. This statement alone:
“It’s time to forget the past (slavery reparations, etc.) and get on with the future.”
Forces me to question your thought process.
Msella
At the end of the American civil war, Northern general Ulysses S. Grant owned four slaves while fighting for the North (who opposed slavery) against the South (who were in favour of slavery). He refused to free his slaves at the end of the war, when he was forced to do so by law. His counterpart in the South, general Robert E. Lee, was morally opposed to slavery and had freed his slaves in the late 1840’s, believing that “slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil in any society, a greater evil to the white man than the black”.
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