In this case 2 = the utter ridiculousness that is the claim that “netroots” have any effective influence in Virginia elections. Sure, there are some talented individuals that both blog *and* are involved with some VA campaigns, and Webb was certainly given a helpful platform in the beginning, but an active and effective influence on Virginia politics that does not make.
Silence Dogood
You’re not going to ruin my delight in the solipsism of the blogosphere, are you?
This was the one that got me: http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=17115
#2. Lol.
Left of the Hill
I believe the blogosphere does have some influence on the political discussion. If some of the tactics I described in the post you linked to were no longer used, however, I believe the influence would be much greater.
I also think it would probably increase the numbers of “talented individuals that both blog *and* are involved with some VA campaigns” by illustrating to more and more organizers that the blogosphere is a legitimate place for discussion.
MB
You’re going to make them cry, Silence.
~
LotH – I’m with you on most of that, in that I think your post highlighted a lot of things that are wrong with the way VA Dem politics are handled online. I also agree that but for those wrongs, we’d probably have a better quality conversation.
That said, unless your definition of “some” is my definition of “minimal to non-existent”, I’m not sure about your first sentence. I’m hardly plugged into VA inside politics, but I can’t recall anything I’ve heard in mainstream political conversation (i.e., not the personal sniping of staff/vol/candidates) that was driven by blogs. There just aren’t the numbers and readership quality there. Webb/Allen is really the only exception I can think of, and it pains me just to type that, given the overhyping “netroots” constantly receives in that case.
silence dogood
MB, that’s not about to dissuade me.
I have to step up for a second and say that Waldo Jaquith uses the Internet in some incredible novel but commonsense ways to advance political discourse by enabling everyone to be better informed about the legislative process. And Vivian Paige’s blog is frequently a clearing house for local political stories out of Norfolk that I wouldn’t necessarily have found otherwise. I also think she does a pretty good job advancing discussions about race relations that you simply don’t find anywhere else in the Virginian blogosphere, although I know she gets a lot of pushback from the anonymous comments of drive-by racists.
Unfortunately, these good blogs are counter-balanced by some pretty horrible political blogs run by self-promoters who use blogs less as a forum for political discourse and more as a tool for advancing poorly-planned propaganda and undisciplined, ill-conceived messaging. They also frequently use blogs as a vehicle for personal vendettas in retribution for real or (more frequently) perceived slights. And because some of our candidates have been successful in the interim for completely unrelated reasons, the solipsistic outlook of these individuals has persuaded them that because their blogs must matter, the undisciplined messaging and idiotic memes and personal vendettas must be advancing the Democratic Cause.
These people should probably remember that if snark was all it took to win elections, the Daily Show would have carried John Kerry to victory in 2004. Nevertheless, here we are.
…not that I have an opinion on the matter, mind you. I just want to make sure I highlight the good blogs while pointing out what makes the bad blogs different and, well, bad. It’s not the medium. It’s the people using the medium badly.
MB
Funny, it rarely occurs to me to mention Waldo’s work, as I see him as a builder, not a blogger. Richmond Sunlight alone has contributed more to the public good than every blog in VA, so far.
And you’re right. It’s the tools, not the tool.
Left of the Hill
Perhaps the biggest way I see the blogosphere having an influence is that it brings more people into the “inside baseball” that takes place in politics. By opening up the discussion to new people it allows more ideas to make their way into the debate. Is there still a lot of room to improve? Yes. Are there are other resources that might be more powerful at the moment? Yes. But I tend to believe that the opening up of the discussion has made some improvement in the political debate and the blogs are in part to credit for that.
silence dogood
Mmm, I have to take some issue with the assertion that the blogs have improved the political process by giving transparency to the inside baseball part of it all, Bryan. ESPN and ESPN.com may have brought us a lot of inside baseball over the years, but while it’s given me some interesting things to talk about over the watercooler at work and vastly improved my fantasy team, it hasn’t done anything to improve my beloved Washington Nationals. Likewise the gossip columns that pass for blogs nowadays may have a smattering of insider info, but that’s worthless information if it’s not packaged in such a way to be useful to the the people already playing the game, or if it’s not geared in such a way as to engage new people who aren’t already actively particpating in the political process beyond their sporadic vote each November.
This is, as I recall, at least the third time I’ve seen a ridiculous RK post highlighted on this blog. The other two (that I remember) was one about the inside baseball of Kaine endorsing Connolly, and an angry piece entitled “Why Don’t We Hit Back?” which did include some inside baseball in the comments, which I remember because I’m the one who provided it. But there’s largely nothing that has been done to improve or alter the political debate or the facts on the ground; the fact that Gerry Connolly and Frank Wolf are both going to be members of the 111th Congress is a pretty clear sign of that.
To draw out this overwrought sports metaphor just a little bit further: Raising Kaine wants to talk about the office politics of trading Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers just after Joe Torre ends up there as manager. Not Larry Sabato wants to talk about what a sleazebag Alex Rodriguez is for cheating on his wife and trying to get more money out of the Yankees. I’m still waiting for someone to come along and teach casual fans the mechanics of turning a 6-4-3 double play or the finer points of the infield fly rule, so that maybe we won’t just have an bunch of people who like to talk about baseball–we’ll have a bunch of people who understand how to play baseball.
The blogs are breeding Democratic pundits, not Democratic activists.
Mark Brooks
I am one who has tried to have it both ways, by being a member of the 5th CD Committee and also a blogger. I even work on the inside with various campaigns in a dual role, being a sort of press agent for them. Of course favorable stories help a campaign, and I sometimes take photos as well. Blogs give me the opportunity to say what I want to even though sometimes even that isn’t true.
I can easily say that for years, I have known about stuff on the inside of campaigns that I have never talked about publicly. And I wouldn’t violate that trust.
In the future, I will be more pointed in some of my criticism, not because I am getting farther from the party apparatus, but because even a rain barrel needs to be emptied once in a while, especially if no one is looking or listening.
MB
Lord, yes. It’s always easier to talk than do.
~
We get inside baseball because that’s what people want, no? It makes them feel informed, and it’s not actually all that complicated (if you could navigate junior high, you can understand 90% of the inside baseball). It’s easy pickings (I’m sure there’s a baseball term that’s appropriate, but my knowledge ended with my 96 season tickets for the Braves).
Teaching someone the options available on a double play, though? Much much harder. Not only is it something that takes more author effort than a link + snark, but you’re much less likely to keep your audience’s attention in the first place. As a result, you end up putting in an enormous amount of work for very little return (in terms of readership, interaction, and/or action). I’ve heard/seen this in many areas, and my own (rare) efforts with media policy issues bear this out.
That said, it’s not a battle we should give up on. Not now.
Mark Brooks
Help!
Teh stupid, it hurts!!!
This is What Self-Awareness Looks Like
Stinky41
Doctors do a terrible job of lobbying for their own cause. ,