Atrios cites a rather amazing metric:
Nearly half of all U.S. children and 90 percent of black youngsters will be on food stamps at some point during childhood, and fallout from the current recession could push those numbers even higher, researchers say.
All a bunch of lazy parents and welfare bums, right? Well, every time I hear about food stamps, I think about the first place I ever saw them- standing in line at the commissary on a US Army base:
Military members and their families are using more food stamps than in previous years – redeeming them last year at nearly twice the civilian rate, according to Defense Commissary Agency figures.
The agency reports that more than $31 million worth of food stamps were used at commissaries nationwide in 2008 – an increase of about $6.2 million, or more than 25 percent – from the $24.8 million redeemed in 2007. That contrasts with a 13 percent overall increase in food stamp use by Americans for the same period, according to the Department of Agriculture, which administers the food stamp program.
Meanwhile, Congress is dumping half a billion dollars into a jet fighter engine the Pentagon doesn’t even want.
Amit
aren’t we the poorest country on Earth? does anyone have more debt than we do?
MB
No, not as a percentage of GDP. Handy graphic.
Amit
cool graphic but not sure I feel any better. we have the same percentage as Canada with 1,000 times the debt. that can’t be good for us
I would be interested in seeing the Debt divided by population and then divided by mean income.
MB
Why can’t that be good for us? Is something wrong with Canada?
~
What would that figure tell you?
tx2vadem
MB, that’s just national debt. Pile on another several trillion for consumer and business debt. We have to look at the total debt market equation to get a fair comparison between economies. Afterall, how many consumers around the world (besides the UK) have racked up as much revolving loan debt as we have?
Amit, I don’t see what mean income is going to get you. Median would be better. But let’s not kid ourselves, the folks at or below median don’t have enough income and have absolutely no net wealth to cover our debts.
MB
Tex (I think that’s what I’ll call you, now), I was just focusing on public debt, as I was talking about public spending. I don’t deny that, on the whole, the US is well in over its head, debt-wise (I believe this is what you would call “freedom”, Amit? :)).
Amit
nothing wrong with Canada. we have 10x the population but 1000x the debt. its the US that is wrong here.
mean or median income, whatever. we are in deep doodoo with out debt.
why would I say debt = freedom? its slavery in my opinion.
so anyway, we are not the richest country by any stretch of the imagination as far as I am concerned
tx2vadem
Amit, percentage is more important than magnitude. Would you prefer a $1000 tax bill that was 30% of your income or a $100,000 tax bill that was 15% of your income? Percentage demonstrates relative burden, which is what we are after. And GDP is a good measure.
It, of course, depends on how you measure rich. In terms of per capita consumption, who beats us? In terms of national income, who beats us? We may not be top of the charts on all measures, but certainly debt load is not a be-all, end-all measure of wealth or poverty.
Debt is slavery? If individualism trumps everything else, then folks choose it when they abuse debt. Debt is not slavery though. It is an effective means of capital allocation. An efficient capital allocation is freedom, is it not?
MB
Huh? The debt is proportional. I don’t get the objection.
Consumer debt is a measure of private economic choice, no? And private economic choices are the sine qua non of freedom for libertarians, no?
But as to richest country, well, I mean, I suppose we could check out the countries in the black on that map. Russia? Yeah, I understand there’s quite the economy there. China? Buying any 30 year Chinese Treasuries? Hell, Mexico’s got lower debt than the US. Clearly time to move south of the border . . .
Amit
yes I understand the ratios, etc but the point I’m trying to say is that we aren’t “rich”. unless you think MC Hammer is rich
MB
Now I feel somewhat compelled to point out that my “Richest Country on Earth” title was primarily a mockery of the USA! USA! jingoism that pervades our national conversation (and helps gloss over the fact that lots our military families are getting by on fucking food stamps).
But after that, well, I suppose there are all sorts of differing definitions of rich. Abu Dhabi’s phenomenally rich by many measures, but if we were playing Civilizations, I’d much rather take the US economy than theirs. On the other end, dude, check out Japan. That’s some serious debt carriage. Would you take Mexico over them? I’m thinking . . . no.
Debt’s a concern, yes. A big concern, for the US. But I’m not about to get drawn into an absolute-numbers apocalypse now worry about it to the exclusion of everything else.
Amit
no doubt our economy is suffering and more and more people have to turn to social programs. but how do we turn it around? how do we attract jobs back to the US? we could debate the stimulus package vs reducing corporate tax but probably best done over a several beers. you think if we run up a large tab we can just tell the bar we’re good for it because we’re rich?
MB
Don’t be daft, Amit. I tell the bar *you’re* good for it because *you’re* rich.
And then I go home. It’s the American way, really.
~
As the rest, I’ll take “reducing the corporate tax” seriously when I see it accompanied by raising the personal income tax (a slick sleight of hand when going on about taxes in comparison to the rest of the world. I understand Russia has the holy grail flat tax. Want to do business there? No?).
At to attracting jobs to the US, well, that’s more education than it is anything else. And since that’s a long term issue, there’s the matter of managing the hemorrhaging of jobs in the interim. I’m fairly comfortably saying that I’ll never be fairly accused of being a protectionist, but I’d say that comprehensive (instead of single issue) trade agreements would go a long way towards that.
MB
Huh. This place apparently doesn’t observe the new EST. I thought I outsourced that . . .