The new national poll from Public Policy Polling (D) has an astonishing number about paranoia among the GOP base: Republicans do not think President Obama actually won the 2008 election — instead, ACORN stole it.
[ . . . ]
The poll asked this question: “Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election last year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him?” The overall top-line is legitimately won 62%, ACORN stole it 26%.
Among Republicans, however, only 27% say Obama actually won the race, with 52% — an outright majority — saying that ACORN stole it, and 21% are undecided.
Just . . . yeah.
Your shocked by what? Republicans or just the general public’s lack of faith in our elections? Alarmingly large percentages of Democrats believe Gore won in 2000 and that 9/11 was an inside job. Though there is no outright proof, given the widespread voter fraud committed by ACORN and its cozy ties with the Obama administration, it is certainly a reasonable suspicion.
Plus PPP is a Dem outfit with a history of bias. Read into it what you will.
Shocked by the incredible ignorance of Republicans, yes. Lets take a look at what you need to believe to think that Al Gore should have won the election in 2000 – the candidate that received the majority of votes cast in a state gives that person that state’s electoral votes. Now, that turns out not to be true, but it seems reasonable enough, no? And that was the actual situation with Gore. People can be wrong about it, and not be idiots (for example, I suspect you don’t have the first clue about what was so appalling about Bush v. Gore, but that doesn’t make you an idiot). Now, to believe that ACORN stole the freaking election, you have to believe that ACORN successfully stuffed *9.5 million* ballots into the box. Seriously.
What? Oh, right. American democracy has been subverted by the fact that poor people who are paid per *registration* sometimes make shit up? Now, as someone who makes shit up (like the accusation above), I’d expect you to be a little more understanding. There is a world of difference between voter registration fraud (which mostly revolves around just that situation above), and actual voter fraud (which is, if you look for convictions, next to non-existent).
I know it’s got to be hard to have tied yourself so tightly to a party that seemingly holds ignorance as its core value, but aren’t you even kind of embarrassed?
Assuming the “9.5 million” figure refers to Barry’s margin of victory, it overstates it by about a million, according to CNN. Also according to the figures on CNN’s website, a shift of 527,854 votes in Virginia, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, Indiana, and Colorado would have swung the electoral college to McCain.
Did ACORN engage in rampant vote fraud? The answer is certainly “Yes.” Was that fraud sufficient to “steal” the election for President Barry? Almost certainly “No.”
But accusations of “idiocracy” are bold words from someone whose allies — and perhaps you, too, Mark — gave us 4-8 years of specious claims about Florida in 2000.
James (Jimmy?) do you know Barack Obama? Were you friends back in in the day? No? Then stop being such a schoolyard jackass.
Fair point on the vote shift. Blind squirrel, nut, etc. The fact remains, LFS is still attributing an extraordinary accomplishment to an organization that hasn’t been able to get much of anything right in years, and against a fully-funded political org with the weight of the US gov’t behind it. So, uh, yeah. He’s still well outside of “reasonable suspicion” and quite within looking ridiculous.
Based on what? Your imagination? I was fighting with ACORN folks before you fools had gotten all excited by the word “Whitewater”, and certainly hold no brief for them. But this obsession – this apparent certainty that they’ve pulled off all these amazing things, well . . . makes you stupid or dishonest. And honestly, I just don’t care which, at this point.
First, I’m not trying to shill for the GOP. They have their problems, and I’m not gonna defend them. But you are saying that somehow one set of paranoid partisans is more acceptable than another set. BS! You pick on Republicans because you have a progressive bias but don’t want to admit it.
Second, you are trying to equate “reasonable suspicion” of the common man with knowledge of specific criminal convictions. That doesn’t fly. How many times have more votes been cast in a district than that district has registered voters? And how many of those occasions have resulted in voter fraud convictions? If you want to go around calling people “stupid or dishonest”, I’d hope you’d have the intelligence or integrity to know the difference between the evidence needed to convict against fraudulent registrations and fraudulent votes.
Ah, the idiots march in both directions. At one time, 43$ of Dems polled by Zogby believed Bush was a conspirator in the 9-11 attacks, and until recently Van Jones, the 9-11 truther whackjob, was on the White House payroll also.
MB have you had a secret”progressive bias that you’ve been hiding all these years?
You think you know someone…
LFS, if you’re not shilling for the GOP, I guess I was being too generous with you. Because the alternative explanation for your positions is that you’re a moron. Seriously, if you can’t identify the substantive difference between the disagreements over the 2000 election, and the folks thinking ACORN stole the 2008 election? M-O-O-N, that spells “moron.” Jesus christ, man, get some pride.
And you’re totally right Sasha. Hiding it all these years. But now? This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine. I’m also biased in favor of truth, decency, and salt & vinegar crisps. I have nothing to hide anymore!
And also? If you want me to respond to something? Don’t link “Protein Wisdom”. Sure, we’re all adults, and we all check out porn from time to time, but don’t bring it here.* Kthxbai.
*That’s my job.
MB, I know the difference. Nice try with a diversionary argument, but it doesn’t do anything to your stupid argument that Republicans are somehow more paranoid than Democrats. What this does prove is that you are incapable of following a thread of discussion and forming coherent retorts.
There’s no diversionary argument there, LFS. You turned it into the question of “Is LFS a shill or a moron?” I hazarded a guess on the former, and you seem to be loading in evidence for the latter. And, well, okay. I don’t much care either way.
I do – and I say this full well knowing about the foibles of Dems – think that self identified Republicans are as a group both demonstrably stupider and more paranoid. It’s not by a massive margin, but that margin definitely exists. Also, it’s demonstrated on subjects for which there’s really no excuse (see, e.g., the Birthers, you ACORN election stealin’ morons, and, oh, WMDs in Iraq).
Well, you said it… so demonstrate it. Demonstrate that self-identified Republicans are more stupid and paranoid than Democrats.
As for subjects that send you lefty progressives into the rubber room: gun control, AGW, workable universal health care, WMDs in Irag pre-invasion, and McCarthy being a member of the House Un-American Activities Committee.
And I’m not gonna argue that I’m not a moron. I’ve never said I was not. So surely it would be child’s play for somebody like you, a non “M-O-O-N” as you would say, to be able back up your assertion with an actual demonstration. Certainly you can do it instead of your usual intellectual rebuttals of “you’re stupid” or “you can’t read” or the ever so witty and original “you’re a racist.” Because if you couldn’t and this moron has backed you into a corner… well, what does that make you? So demonstrate.
I think it was pretty well demonstrated up top. A majority of Republicans believe that ACORN stole the 2008 election. That requires ignorance and stupidity on a scale unmatched by Democrats. And if you want to get into recent history, well, perhaps you’d like to check out the many WMD in Iraq surveys? Or, perhaps, you can just look at the people who lead your party. Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News. There’s a brain trust, if ever there was. Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama have loads of faults and failures, but militant ignorance isn’t among them.
Look, I’m not going to get drawn into an argument about the color of the sky with you. Honestly, I don’t give a shit if you think it’s red.
You know, I’m fairly sure I never called you a racist, LFS, but gosh, you sure do bring that up a lot. Feeling defensive for a reason, perhaps? It’s that kind of sloppiness/commitment to victimhood that makes me feel okay in not taking you seriously.
I guess you could go to work for the University of East Anglia’s CRU with that kind of thorough rigor and dedication to the scientific method. Your citation is of one facet while you seem to have completely thrown out countervailing issues brought up in this thread. You’re just like George W. Bush, cherry picking to fit your preconceived narrative. Besides, you said it was “demonstrable”… as in you could demonstrate it… as in you could reproduce it over and over again. So demonstrate it, Mr. Smarty Pants who likes to go around calling other people morons.
Regarding the cries of racism you seem to be so fond of… well, you just did it right there with your defensive subtext rebuttal. And you laced many of your comments on this blog with such hints — perhaps you should go back and reread what you have written (yes, I know it would be painful). But have you forgotten your entire tirade over on blueweeds about the Southern Strategy… you know the whole enchilada where you accused all Republicans of being racists because their base is in the South. You think I am a Republican and I am from the South, so ipso facto… Now, I may be a moron as you have stated, but I’ve never bought into such a thin conspiracy theory based on some speeches taken out of context and a few coincidences. Indeed you want to convict the GOP rank-and-file of being stupid for believing ACORN committed election fraud, but you believe in the Southern Strategy. Looked in the mirror much?
I think the next step in this series of exchanges should include a tub of jello. Purple.
@Peej – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnqj31VPNoE” rel=”nofollow”>I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine.
@LFS – seriously, if you think the Southern Strategy is a myth, please, consider this a completely sincere request to go.away. I admit, I occasionally entertain the thought that you’re not the moron you often come off as, but if you’re contesting that? You’ve now become the guy that everyone hides from at the party. I know, it’s awkward, it’s embarrassing. I won’t give you any bad references. Just move on. For all of us.
What’s wrong, MB? You can’t stand behind all your bravado, finger pointing, and name calling? Hey, according to you I’m just a moron. So it should be easy to refute the things I say with clear, unambiguous, unpretentious arguments and citations without the need to resort to attacks. I’m betting you can’t, as so far you haven’t been able to do so. Or is it that you just want an echo chamber, like to growl and sneer at people who don’t agree with you, and put your hands to your ears and scream “I can’t hear you!” when somebody pops your bubble?
As for being embarrassing… at what point do you think I care?